Barbara Honegger Gets It Wrong Again
Paul DeRienzo is currently the News Director at WBAI-FM, hosts The Torch at the Progressive Radio Network and is a long time radio/television personality with multiple programs including once having worked as a teacher with autistic high school students for 8 years, as well as ESL. In this video, DeRienzo interviews Barbara Honegger. Barbara has worked as the White House Policy Analyst, Special Assistant to the President (Ronald Regan). A former policy analyst and rom 1995 to 2011 served as Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School.
Honegger is currently involved with the Lawyers’ Committee for 9/11 Inquiry Grand Jury Petition Research and Drafting Committee as well as being a member of the Grand Jury Petition Committee for 9/11 Inquiry. Honegger has past stated that there is proof in the evidence that no large plane hit the Pentagon and that the damage was done by explosives. She also states that a white plane object is what caused the initial damage at the Pentagon’s heliport.
In this interview i will point out the obvious points she makes, erroneously, regarding the Pentagon. DeRienzo himself holds on position whatsoever in this interview as he just plays in the interviewer. The interview is approximately 26 minutes. I will break down the questionable claim she makes along with the time at which the point was made. Full interview found here:
6:45: “ ..but the Twin Towers on 9/11, as well World Trade Center 7 which wasn’t hit by any plane, all three buildings came down by controlled demolition. Not because of planes impacts or fires there from, that is not true. The official story is as those buildings collapsed because of plane impacts and the fires and therefore the weakening of the building in any internal structure. That is simply not true. There was pre-placed explosives that require at least weeks if not months to pre-place, therefore Al Qaeda couldn’t have done it, it was literally an inside job at both World Trade Center towers and World Trade Center 7.”
Everything she stated here is pure speculation, and she won’t even admit it as such. Hardly an explosive expert herself, she insinuates with complete conviction that WTC 1, 2 and 7 were prepped with explosives weeks, even months in advance. Danny Jowenko, who once worked in the Demolition industry had once remarked in an interview back in 2005 that WTC 1 and 2 were not victims of any type of controlled demolition. During the interview which i will link below here he states plainly the following:
14:10: “Again, you clearly see, those other things start at the top and you see the outer walls being pressed outwardly because the middle-core sags down. There the bolt connections break etc etc. It goes and the rest is, as the energy comes it comes and it presses it away.”
Jowenko is stating that the collapses are starting at the very top of the buildings where the energy and mass are becoming greater as each floor is collapsing onto the other.
Danny Jowenko interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f4w8iJmn08
However i must add that i myself am not an authority to speak on this matter since i am not a physics layman by any means. Thus i will skip adding my opinion on this matter and will not speculate as to how the towers fell, unlike Honegger who arrogantly asserts they fell from pre planted explosives as to where there is no evidence to support her assertion.
8:30: “..the bottom line is that, believe it or not, the real story at the Pentagon just is at the World Trade Centers One, Two and Seven not even hit by a plane seven is pre placed inside the building explosives with a plane in a plane approach and impact in the case of the World Trade Center towers and in the case of the Pentagon. A large plane approached and destruction right there close to the wall of the Pentagon at what was called the Pentagon Heliport where the President and Vice President flies in. And that’s where the destruction is, that’s where the main destruction is.”
I don’t believe it Barbara, only because everything you stated here was false. Honegger is asserting that there were pre-planted explosives because Hugh Shelton, Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, smelled what he thought was “cordite” Cordite is a smokeless explosive made from nitrocellulose, nitroglycerine, and petroleum jelly, used in ammunition. According to Honegger, Shelton writes in his memoirs that immediately after the damage to the Pentagon he smelled cordite all around the Pentagon. There is a glaring problem with this claim made by Honegger, General Hugh Shelton was not at the Pentagon at the time of the attack upon it. Shelton took off at 7:15 a.m. to fly to Europe for a NATO conference and while in the air he is informed about the planes crashing into both WTC towers.
He also learns that there was an attack at the Pentagon, he tells the aides on the plane to head back into the United States, they return to Andrews Air Force base at 4:40pm. Meanwhile General Shelton has never stated that no plane crashed at the pentagon and has adamantly repeated that the hijacked, American Airlines Flight 77, was what caused the impact and ensuing damage at the Pentagon which would completely contradict Honegger’s previous quoted assertion. Hugh Shelton also never reiterated his claim of cordite anywhere else, even during media interviews. I will provide below the Secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld alongside him Hugh Shelton…where the claim of cordite or explosives are never mentioned any any time. In fact Shelton is quite the opposite of Honegger’s theory, as he is a firm proponent of the facts regarding the Pentagon being impacted by American Airlines Flight 77.
Also, Honegger states that the major damages are readily noticeable at the Pentagon’s Heliport. this too is obviously false. I will provide a small picture outline of where the heliport was on 9/11.
Honegger is stating this is where the primary damage is, unlike what is shown below…..nowhere near the heliport. According to three Fort Myer firemen stationed at the Heliport, Alan Wallace, Mark Skipper and Dennis Young the plane had roared past the 3 men and impacted into the West Wall of the Pentagon, in the photo below you can obviously see the fire station and the red truck where the firemen hid under.
According to Alan Wallace:
“Skipper and I walked to the front of the fire truck. We’re talking about fire alarms and the Marine Corps or something. It is the most gorgeous, beautiful, clear blue sky you and I will ever see,” he said. “Like I said, we get 10–15 feet out in front of the fire truck. (There’s a) Flash to my left. There is the airplane … From the time we see the airplane until it hits the building is probably half a second.”
Wallace also exclaimed the following:
“Later that morning when I began to look at the distances of everything from the fire truck, I thought the plane hit the building 200 feet south of the front of the fire truck. I had only apparently run about 20 feet when the plane hit the building. I ran another 30 feet or so until I felt I was on fire. I thought I had done everything I could do for myself. I decided to get down below the fire and fireball. So I dove face first to the blacktop. At this time, it just happened that I was right beside the left rear tire of the Ford van. Foam 6 l, Fort Myer: we have had a commercial airliner crash into the west side of the Pentagon at the heliport, Washington Blvd. side. We are OK with minor injuries. Aircraft was a Boeing 757 or Air Bus 320.” It also seemed like I mumbled something else before I removed the head set, shut off the truck engine and began to egress the vehicle.”
Obviously he noticed the plane was a large commercial Boeing.
Alan Wallace even penned the outline of the plane’s descent and surrounding area of the Pentagon.
At no point in these statements does she lend any evidence for pre-planted explosives placed inside the Pentagon.
10:09: “..and there were massive explosions both inside the building and probably also outside the building in the diesel fuel tank that involved pre-placed cordite.”
All of this is once again, baseless speculation on Honegger’s part. As for the massive explosions, Wayne Coste Pentagon presentation titled “Explanation of the evidence at the Pentagon on 9/11” details thoroughly how there were no known large explosions at the Pentagon. With David Chandler (9/11SpeakOut.org) narrating he explains how the visual evidence of the Pentagon shows there were no separate large scale explosions at any time during the day. Honegger once again also does not provide any evidence whatsoever for the claim of pre-planted explosives in the Pentagon fuel tank. Link to the presentation below:
10:46: “..but World Trade center seven which was just, just North just a little bit beyond like a football, few football fields away from the North side of World Trade Center One was World Trade Center on 9/11 and it came in a perfect controlled demolition which requires pre-placed explosives at least weeks ahead of time at 5:21pm.”
Repetitive claims of pre-planted explosives while not mentioning any evidence whatsoever. This is why i feel the physics of 9/11 has been a complete waste of time regarding the bigger picture. Incidentally Honegger has a solid history of dealing with the geo-political and yet has completely disregarded this area regarding her theories of the attacks of September 11th 2001. However as i stated previously because of my complete lack of understanding physics i will refrain from making any judgement, maybe David Chandler, Erik Marrette, Eric Conley can lend more information here.
11:37: “An inside job team simply means not Al Qaeda. It means not Muslim terrorists. It means someone who had to have access to the some of the most highly, securely controlled buildings on the planet. The Pentagon of the United States and especially World Trade Center Seven let alone World Trade Centers one and two.”
Meanwhile that’s exactly who hijacked the planes, Arab terrorists. Some were devout, most were not. As for security, the Pentagon surely is one of the most secure areas in the United States, but the World Trade Centers had the Port Authority as security. Hardly one would consider the Port Authority as the most secure entity even in New York let alone the country. I have absolutely no idea why Honegger would assert this but then again she has made numerous questionable claims regarding 9/11 that don’t make any sense whatsoever. So we have that.
13:23: “..some black ops team that has the expertise to plant “extremely” high-grade military explosives, and we know that they were high-grade military explosives because the dust….the dust samples, even the U.S Geological Survey the government’s own agency…one of many agencies but the main one that studied the dust found these..these iron micro-spheres throughout the dust samples from the World Trade Center in that huge pyroclastic dust cloud and you can't have iron micro-spheres, these little tiny nano spheres unless you’ve had molten iron. “
According to RJ Lee Group, an industrial forensics analytical laboratory and scientific consulting firm located in Pittsburgh, they had collected the dust samples from just mere feet away from Ground Zero and had it tested. On their own website they exclaimed the intricate details of their studies regarding the dust, toxins and other chemicals found at the site. On their summary they described their research as follows:
“The enormity of the task and the volume of samples anticipated required strict attention to recording details. To ensure these studies were executed properly, we developed customized software applications for the Personal Data Assistants (PDAs) we used to record our findings during sample collection, visual assessments, and other field activities. Using PDAs and customizable software, we increased the efficiency of field operations, minimized data entry errors, and streamlined the processing of more than 100,000 samples collected over a three-year period. Based upon these studies, we developed what is commonly known as the “WTC Dust Signature.” This signature demonstrated the unique characteristics of the finely pulverized dust and chemicals resulting from the WTC event and was used to indicate areas of impact in affected buildings.”
Their findings were posted in a news letter which was posted on Metabunk hosted by Mick West. It explained about the iron micro-spheres found at the WTC. Link to the paper provided below:
Honegger also again submits to the imagination regarding these “black op” teams which planted explosives while the building was under watch, while according to her, under one of the most surveilled buildings on the planet.
14:52: “…and my research has not just theorizes but proven that there were, inside the building, explosives in the Pentagon as well. In fact the first inside the building explosion at the Pentagon happened at 8:30 in the morning and stopped the clock of a woman who was almost killed by it, April Gallop.”
Honegger is misinformed regarding the time of Gallop’s watch. Gallop exclaims her watched stopped at 9:30, not 8:30 as Honegger asserts. She also asserts that while she was at her computer an explosions blew her out of her chair. 7 minutes before the plane impacted the Pentagon, an explosion which also didn’t affect anyone else….but her. according to Gallop:
“Again, it wasn’t anything expected. I was just going to turn on the computer to do a letter. And I never got to do that. As soon as I touched the computer, boom, and I actually thought it was a bomb. And to leave out graphic details, you know, all of a sudden, due to the impact of the plane, we were blown away from the location we were at and covered under four floors of debris, walls, office equipment, etcetera.”
Her story was never corroborated by anyone else on the first floor of the West Wing of the Pentagon.To show how this story is most likely unlikely, take the example of Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell. Birdwell was with his colleagues watching the WTC burning gaping holes smolder downtown Manhattan. He left to go to the bathroom about 20 yards from where the plane impacted. Birdwell and his colleagues such as Col.Rob Maness, who helped save Birdwells life, never experienced this explosions Gallop exclaims happened just 7 minutes prior to the planes impact into the building. Birdwells story can be read here, there is no mention of any explosion prior to the plane impact:
You can also read many testimonies of Pentagon employees who were also inside the building, there are no mentions of explosions before the plane impacted the building.
Honegger’s claim to conduct proper research and prove there were explosives inside the Pentagon is laughable on the face of her unproven claims based on testimony of one woman who’s claims of an explosion, which are unproven, falls flat.
15:39: “World Trade Centers 1 & 2 were specifically designed by the engineers to withstand, not only the impact of a fully loaded, fully fueled loaded 707, but multiple impacts by planes. They were specifically designed not to collapse due to precisely what happened on 9/11.”
Not according to the WTC engineers who constructed the World Trade Center towers. Leslie Robertson one of the lead WTC engineers along with structural engineer, Charlie Thornton, claim the buildings were meant to withstand wind pressure not fully loaded 757’s. They exclaimed that the difference between the 707 and the 757 is significant to the damage. Robertson states they designed for crashes by the 707 going at 184mph. Honegger is rather mistaken in her assumption regarding the WTC engineers design for plane impacts. Link to Robertson and Thornton is provided below, it refutes Honegger’s assertions regarding the engineers initial thoughts.
British consulting engineer Professor Alastair Soane states: “They were extremely robust buildings and built to withstand a tremendous amount. But this was of course a completely abnormal situation and one which would not have been envisaged by the people who built it. The strength of the towers was enormous but they would not have been designed for aircraft strikes.”
According to Gordon Masterton, who chairs the Institution of Civil Engineers’ structural and building board, said such buildings are designed for “events which are reasonably predictable”.
He said: “Tall buildings are built to withstand extremely high winds and earthquakes and just sustain localized damage without catastrophic collapse. But clearly the limit of what was reasonably foreseeable has been exceeded by a huge magnitude.
16:33: “Immediately after 9/11, the BBC and other truly mainstream international media outlets, reported that a minimum of 6 of of the alleged 19 hijackers were still alive. In fact Mohamed Atta’s father was interviewed and he was asked how would do you react with your so being one of the hijackers and he says “oh my sons alive” and the surprise of the interviewing journalist said how can i get in touch with him, and Attas father said why don’t you call the Mossad he works for them.”
Honegger is going with the grand old claim that the BBC reports the hijackers are alive and well, well 6 of them at least. This claim is one of the most remarkably inept of all 9/11 discussion, since the easiest refutation would be simple….why aren't there thousands of stories recalling their shock at being named the 9/11 suspects. Simple, the hijackers are dead. In fact the BBC did a report 5 years later explaining the mistakes made in their initial report, link provided below:
Meanwhile, the Saudi government and spokesman, Interior Minister Prince Nayef, told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
Waleed and Wail Al Shehhri brothers, that were used as the pictures in the BBC report, are reported by their own father, Mohammed Ali Al Shehri as being the ones depicted in the BBC report and are missing. he has had no contact from them since December 2000.
Regarding the story of Mohammed Atta and his father, she even gets the basics incorrect. In the interview, Atta’s father exclaims that his son may have been killed by the Mossad after 9/11. However when it comes to Mohammed Atta, there is much to understand and question regarding his conduct on 9/11, as official flight manifests have never been produced by American Airlines or United Airlines.
17:36: “ ..there was a company called Odigo, that was an Israeli company that did vacate the building and all of it’s employees were told to get out and got out of the building in advance.”
Not entirely true. Two employees of the company were messaged two hours prior to the first plane impacting the building about an impending attack. However it was because of the two employees who contacted the FBI regarding their message was the reason for it being investigated in the first place. Incidentally there was no follow up to this story, so take what you will from it. Honegger states she has no clue regarding the complicity of the Israeli intelligence apparatus on the 9/11 attacks, which is quite revealing actually.
23:28: “…it left Dulles Airport outside of Washington DC about 35 miles at around 8:20 in the morning. We know for a fact that is not the same plane heading east towards Los Angeles its not the same plane that allegedly by the official story turned around and came towards the Pentagon. We know it can’t be, and the way that we know it can’t be, and this is one of my own findings that you see in Behind the Smoke Curtain, (interrupted)…you see the evidence in the government’s own documents that the plane that left whatever plane it was that left Dulles Airport at about 8:20 in the morning and went west and the official story says it just turned around it came back and it hit the Pentagon. We know it can't be true because the air traffic controllers at Indianapolis which was tracking the plane said the plane was going down precipitously before the transponder went off.”
This part here was obviously saturated with so much “gish gallop” i almost felt embarrassed for her. In this part of the interview its apparent she is simply losing control of the interview and keeps repeating herself. Honegger is exclaiming that the Indianapolis ATC and the Government narrative are in disagreement due to the planes descent. This is her “evidence” that the plane that impacted the Pentagon isn’t American Airlines Flight 77. She never gives any evidence for this assertion that it was another plane she simply speculates it because? She believes it.
According to Honegger, Indianapolis ATC manages to lose contact with Flight 77 before the transponder is turned off. This is flatly false. Indianapolis ATC had constant contact with AA77 right until it’s final radio transmission which was at 8:50am. The airplane had turned on the autopilot on a course to Washington D.C. Dulles air traffic controllers had detected the plane on their radar screens as it approached Washington D.C. Reagan Airport controllers asked a passing Air National Guard Lockheed C-130 Hercules to identify and follow the aircraft. The pilot, Lt. Col. Steven O’Brien, told them it was a Boeing 757 or 767, and its silver fuselage meant that it was probably an American Airlines jet. There are variations at the altitude of the plane, as the airbus leveled off at 27,000 feet, with levels at 22,000 are also noted. But nothing that would warrant such outrageous exclamations that American Airlines Flight 77 was somehow another plane, which Honegger never gives any explanation for. Its utterly ridiculous.
The ATC recording for American Airlines Flight 77 is available here:
Here is the National Transportation Safety Board American Airlines Flight 77 flight path study.
I sincerely cannot tell you how utterly embarrassed i am for Barbara Honegger and for people that follow her work. I find her to be prodigiously absent of even basic information regarding the events of September 11th 2001. Her claims are absolutely without merit or even of basic explanation. Its absolutely puzzling how she managed to become an “authority” in the 9/11 Truth Community but this also isn’t the least but shocking since their movement is infested with competing, conspiracy groups that contradict one another.
The ending of the interview is what i found most revealing. DeRienzo seemed incredulous at this point…
26:07: Paul DeRienzo — “So Barbara, you don’t have any theory about to these planes if they are not in fact used to crashing…”
Barbara Honegger: “See, i am not a conspiracy theorist. I focus on facts, i have forensic facts. I have interviews from the top military officials and the bottom line is they’re lying to us about the Pentagon plane and whatever left Dulles.”
Conspiracy Theorist — One that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators.
You are exactly that Barbara Honegger.